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Talk:Manus, Father of the Abyss/@comment-71.204.137.193-20130629085511/@comment-6003396-20130630032302
So basically the argument is: that Manus did not create the Abyss, but instead was only a pawn of Kaathe's (who was the actual creator of the Abyss) in order to bring about the Age of Dark. Correct? Just want to make sure that I am clear. ---- XtremeVoidNinja wrote: if you remember Kaathe talking he says there was others... I always thought that the others were referring to other Chosen Undeads, or the NPC predecessors that were attempting to fulfill the Prophecy. XtremeVoidNinja wrote: citizens of Oolacile do not know about Manus so yea it would make sense for them to call him the father of the Abyss Manus is referred to as the "Father of the Abyss" from other sources. Soul of Manus description: "Soul of Manus, Father of the Abyss...Ancient Manus was clearly once human. But he became the Father of the Abyss after his humanity went wild, eternally seeking his precious broken pendant" That right there discredits the entire argument, but I will try to address the other points anyway. XtremeVoidNinja wrote: Manus would have to be in New Londo Ruins for the Abyss to be there because if the Abyss was born of Manus then only Manus can cause it to appear Below the Earth, there are can often be interconnecting caverns and large caves. So as the Abyss spreads outward from deep below ground, it is not inconceivable that it would end up below Oolacile Township, The Royal Wood (a.k.a. Darkroot Garden) and the (future) New Londo Ruins, which are all in fairly close proximity to one another. XtremeVoidNinja wrote: Also the game clearly states that Artorias has dealt with the abyss before and got a ring so he can travel the Abyss unharmed, that’s why he was later sent to Oolacile when the Abyss broke out, so if Manus was the father and slumbering how did the abyss appear elsewhere? I believe the game states that Artorias dealt with the Abyss in the past, from the perspective of the time of the Chosen Undead. So his past experience could be referring to his escapades in Oolacile. But the game is not entirely clear as to the exact progression of events. As to why Kaathe has the ability to travel the Abyss, we can only speculate. It could be because of his connection to the Furtive Pygmy, the first Human (some speculate that Manus is the Furtive Pygmy), whom he serves, and the Abyss can be thought of as an oasis of raw Humanity. Or maybe the serpents are just under a different set of rules when compared to other creatures, since both Kaathe and Frampt have the ability to traverse considerable distances (to Firelink Alter). However, simply because Kaathe is unaffected by the Abyss, does not necessarily lead to the conclusion that he is the source of it. Kaathe's (or really just the "toothy serpent"'s) motivation for coaxing the people of Oolacile into "upturning the grave of primeval man, and inciting his ornery wrath." is ultimately unknown. It might just be so that Kaathe and the Darkwraiths had a base of operations (the Abyss), so as to aid them in their quest to end the Age of Fire.